Bruno Tabacci, leader of the Democratic Center and undersecretary to the Presidency of the Council, does not hide his satisfaction with the result of last Sunday's administrative elections and is convinced that, in the end, the seriousness and competence of the Draghi government will pay more, even in electoral terms , of the ambiguities and anti-European and populist impulses of the centre-right. In this interview with FIRSTonline there is his assessment of last Sunday's vote but also of the effects of the grillina split and the way in which the center-left is preparing for the 2023 general elections. Let's hear it.
Mrs Tabacci, municipal elections of 26 June rewarded the centre-left perhaps beyond expectations: is it the effect of the divisions of the centre-right or is there something else? And, while considering the peculiarity of municipal elections, can we draw some indications of a general nature?
“It is difficult to deny the national significance of the result of these administrative elections. The right has also lost in capitals where it was absolutely sure of winning. And he lost because never as in this phase does he appear ambiguous and therefore unreliable in the eyes of the Italians. At the same time that two of the three major parties in the coalition support the pro-European and Atlanticist government of Mario Draghi, neither Meloni, nor Salvini nor Berlusconi - I am thinking of his statements, even recent ones, about Putin to be satisfied - have ever completely abandoned the anti-European and populist tendencies and indeed they suggest that on these very bases they could govern if they win the elections in 2023. To say, as they do, we win if we stand united, in these conditions I think is an illusion”
Why an illusion?
“Because first it is necessary to clarify on which programmatic assumptions we are united. And therefore until they make a clear choice of sides, with Europe or against Europe, against the sovereignists or with the sovereignists, it will be difficult for their proposal to be taken into consideration. But, in my opinion, this time marked by seriousness and competence, thanks to the Draghi government, doesn't leave much choice: the Italians prefer to rely on those who are with Europe and against populists and sovereignists. This is the true response of the last two weeks' vote. And it is on this that I believe the right should reflect in the first place ”.
President Tabacci, let's go beyond the local elections and look at what is happening on the national political scene. Until the last minute you were one of Giuseppe Conte's biggest supporters in his second government and now you say you are "rooting" for Di Maio. One of two things: either the split between Di Maio and Conte in the grillini is a joke or you are an acrobat of politics in casually passing from one end to the other of your grillini interlocutors. How do you explain all this?
“Things are not as you want to insinuate. The Count I fully appreciated and supported was that of Count 2 (having also opposed Count 1 with impassioned and easily traceable parliamentary interventions). So much so that I worked to ensure that there was a Count ter on the occasion of the exploratory assignment entrusted by Mattarella to Fico. Only in the face of the fact that the numbers necessary to expand the majority were not there, was President Mattarella forced to call Draghi. And the Draghi government is a presidential initiative government, as there are no parliamentary majorities on the field defined in this legislature. Di Maio was and is an excellent Foreign Minister, absolutely loyal to Draghi, also on the delicate Ukrainian affair, on which the distinctions between Conte and the M5S have grown, especially on the pro-European choice to help Ukraine defend itself from the Russian invader . On this the break in Parliament took place. Di Maio's position seemed more linear to me, far from a joke, and I acted accordingly ”.
You who lived through the most glorious times of the DC and the centre-left, don't you find it depressing that now we are only talking about alignments and possible electoral alliances without a shred of political project and programme? But do you really think that Di Maio and Calenda or Renzi can find an agreement, which is not of pure electoral convenience, on issues such as justice, basic income or nuclear power?
“My judgment on the current political phase is very severe, as it is on most of the more than twenty years of the so-called Second Republic and I have never censored myself in this regard. These parties just look like the past participle of leaving. Making a comparison with the major parties of the First Republic is not only an impossible operation but would be even more humiliating for today. But this is the time that we are given to live: I certainly cannot claim to choose either the convent or the friars, since these are the friars of our time and I myself belong to them. So a little humility, self-critical ability and willingness to make the general interest prevail over the particular on the part of everyone would be needed. Because every parliamentarian, starting with the leaders, is today faced with the risk of an institutional crisis that opens with the growing detachment of public opinion repeatedly manifested in the last electoral consultations. And sooner or later everyone will have to realize this. Speaking of programs, let's try to be precise. Our country cannot afford ambiguity either on the pro-European position or on the Atlantic one, nor on the defense of the euro, nor on the implementation of the commitments undertaken with the Pnrr: I am not saying this out of ideological fanaticism, but due to the size of our public debt, because we don't have the raw materials we need and therefore we have to remain connected to a system of alliances and international relationships. On these issues, voters are demanding clarity. The Pnrr commits the country to until the end of 2026 and it is the greatest opportunity we have. By making confusion we waste it”.
Electoral law permitting, one hears of the Draghi area with or without the Democratic Party depending on whether one votes with the Rosatellum or with proportional representation, but it is curious that, even on his part, there is an evident ostracism towards Matteo Renzi who was decisive in bringing down Conte 2 and in first evoking the hypothesis of a Draghi government which has always supported - in terms of reformism, Europeanism and Atlanticism - with a coherence infinitely superior to that of the latest arrivals in the area Dragons like Di Maio. Acting on the thrust of personal grudges or dislikes, don't you believe, as Il Foglio wrote, that instead of giving life to the Draghi area we go towards the Tafazzi area?
“You say electoral law permitting, as if it were an unimportant premise. But it is not an indifferent question. It is decisive. With a proportional electoral law (with barrier and preferences) a central area can have its own political and parliamentary autonomy. With this electoral law and with the reduction of parliamentarians, however, coalitions are essential to compete in the attribution of parliamentary seats. Today we see that on one side there is the Democratic Party and on the other Brothers of Italy. They are the potential pivots of the two possible coalitions. I work and recommend working for a pro-European coalition, neither sovereign nor populist. It is in the interests of the country and of Europe, which is the only possible dimension in the geopolitical framework that is emerging. To do this, no personal foreclosures are allowed between those who recognize themselves in the pro-European camp. Di Maio placed himself in that field and has the merit of having said he was available to dialogue with others, I did not hear any preclusions in his speeches. Others, who also support the Draghi government loyally, in recent months instead it seems to me so far they have based themselves more on mutual foreclosures than on the principle of inclusion. I hope that all the vetoes will be overcome because this is the only way to defeat the coalition led by those who oppose the current Draghi government. A center-left area can be built that adopts the method and style of Mario Draghi's government. Sober, concrete, without fuss, attentive to the weakest, and capable of indicating to the country a valid proposal for the future. Do these intentions seem tafazzist to you? Or rather a recovery of seriousness that can only be appreciated by our people?”
You declared that "a dialogue with Conte must be kept open until the end to keep the Five Star Movement within the perimeter of the majority and then to build a competitive coalition", but what common political and programmatic bases can there ever be between two groups - such as those of Di Maio and that of Conte - which reproach each other with mutual ambiguities to the point of dividing, not to mention the incompatibility between Conte's oscillations on Europe, NATO and Russia and Letta's authentically pro-European and Atlanticist line , Renzi and Calenda under the sign of Draghi?
“Obviously this is not the time to throw the past in his face. The Vaffa Movement no longer exists, some of those who remained part of it after Di Maio's departure may also be tempted by nostalgia but, precisely because it seems to me that there is a lot of uncertainty about the path to take, I think it is it is essential in this phase to work to prevent a return to the past from prevailing rather than assuming responsibility towards the country also for the future. Everyone is then the arbiter of their own choices, but I would like to point out that if the Italians believed that adding up the protests was enough to build a government project, today they are certainly disillusioned: so I believe that leaving the majority to go back to being Di Battistas rather than an opportunity to recover consensus would be the tombstone of the residual credibility of that political force. After the pandemic, which has not been completely overcome, and in the midst of a war that is bloodying Europe, Italians have become much more demanding out of concern and will not trust old or new sorcerer's apprentices. It is a powerful reality call for everyone. And on the other hand, the first who seems to me to be rightly committed to trying to keep the 5 Stars together in the coalition is precisely the secretary of the Pd Enrico Letta whose authentically pro-European and Atlanticist line you also recognize. Here is Letta's effort, I share it because I fully understand the reasons and I feel like supporting it as far as I can".
You have always been in favor of a proportional electoral law but either it is thought that it could fall from the sky or someone will need to take the initiative, overcoming the opposition of the right and Letta's hesitations: given the exceptional nature of the moment and the need to to guarantee the stability of Italy beyond the electoral appointments, could it not be the Draghi government itself that stirs the waters?
“I am in favor of a proportional electoral law with preferences that frees voters from the constraint of false and contradictory coalitions and gives them back the power to choose who to be represented by. I don't think the government can take an initiative in this sense. It is the friars of the convent I mentioned earlier who must have a leap of dignity, seriousness and commitment to prevent their convent from falling into ruin dragging themselves into ignominy”.
