War is always a tragedy, made up of death and blood, and the one unleashed by Vladimir Putin against Ukraine is no exception. However, just as the pandemic "made us discover the unity of the human family", so too Putin's war, in addition to a colossal leap back in the history of Russia, can have a paradoxical effect and is to push Europe to be itself and to relaunch itself around great ideal values. "I don't want to cradle any illusions, but this is not the time to despair" Franco Ferrarotti, the most famous of Italian sociologists and scholar appreciated throughout the world, argues with conviction in this interview with FIRSTonline. But, together with the trust and hope in the political processes that the war can unhoped-for in Europe, Ferrarotti, who has analyzed the orientations of Italian society and its political class throughout his life, is not even surprised by the pro-Russian outbursts which - from Berlusconi to Salvini and Conte – cross a part of the political groups despite the strong Atlanticist and pro-European imprint of Mario Draghi (“a happy exception due to the saving genius of President Mattarella”) but they also attract academic circles and pieces of public opinion. "It's the charm of the strong man that unfortunately we got to know up close in Italy at the time of the Duce". The discourse on anti-Americanism on which Ferrarotti's reflections are never trivial is more complex. But let's hear his point of view on one of the most dramatic moments of our century.
Professor Ferrarotti, the Russian invasion of Ukraine on 24 February marked the end of an era and the return to the scene of war on their doorsteps that entire generations had not known for over seventy years. How and when the Russia-Ukraine conflict will end is still unknown, but certainly the war, together with the pandemic, has upset the global political and economic balance. It's hard to figure out where we're going. What do you see on the horizon?
“I see a big step backwards in history because war has more devastating effects than the pandemic which, despite the tragedy of human lives lost, had and still has a cathartic phase that made us discover the unity of the human family. Instead the war that began with the Russian invasion of Ukraine took us back not so much to the Second World War but even to the times of the Napoleonic wars of General Von Clausewitz, who conceived of war as the only possibility of relationship with the otherness of the other and as an act of force to reduce the opponent to one's will. When Putin argues that Lenin's creation of the Ukraine in 1917 was a historic mistake, it creates disorientation and brings us back not so much to the USSR, but even to the empire of the Tsar obsessed with encircling the West. This is not a war like any other, but it is a tragic and bloody confrontation between the autocratic East and the not without flaws but still democratic West”.
As the recognized father of sociology in Italy, you are used to studying and analyzing Italian society and its orientations: you expected that, in the face of a clear Atlanticist and pro-European imprint of the Draghi government and its clear support for Ukraine, emerge in some parts of the political class (from Berlusconi to Salvini and Conte) but also in public opinion an openly pro-Putin sentiment and a visible anti-Americanism? How do you explain?
"Honestly what is happening in Italy does not surprise me and confirms the mediocrity of a large part of the management groups, compared to which a leader of the international stature of Mario Draghi is a happy exception, but still an exception, made possible by the saving genius by President Mattarella. The approaching elections arouse the irrationality and instinctive nature of opposition parties or political groups devoid of any vision and which reproduce themselves only through the exercise of power”.
But how do you explain the fascination for Putin that emerges not only in some political groups but also in intellectual circles and sections of the Italian population? In your opinion, what origins does it have?
“Unfortunately, it is the fascination of the strong man and of the personalization of power that has ancient roots in our country. Let us not forget that the Fascists saw Mussolini, the Duce, as the man of providence. It is a sign of decadence which is in contrast with the democratic rules but which we have to reckon with”.
But where does anti-Americanism come from?
“Despite my great love for the United States and its democracy, anti-Americanism is primarily the flip side of the US's inability to run an empire and exercise a hegemonic position without real hegemony. I hope they understand that the way to raise their approval rating in the world is certainly not that of isolationism, which often resurfaces”.
Professor, doesn't it seem improbable to you that in some political parties and in certain intellectual circles the Russian aggression against Ukraine and the West are placed on the same level, despite its undoubted mistakes, delays and misunderstandings? In your opinion, is it only the result of ideological prejudices or even of complicity with Russia, which emerged sensationally in the US at the time of Trump but also in Europe and Italy?
“I wouldn't speak of ideological prejudices but of a matter, so to speak, of the skin, of primordial instincts linked to survival and oppression and fueled by a sort of para-mafiosity that is widespread in our country. It is not the amoral familism of Italy that Banfield spoke of, but the aberrant idea that everything can be resolved with the complicity of a pat on the back or a handshake, of which Putin's visit to one of the many villas in Berlusconi has remained somewhat of a symbol of a way of doing politics outside the rules and institutional transparency. It is the contradiction between Italy's strength and weakness - between the philosophy of goodwill and manifestations of criminal ferocity - that our country has had in its history and which it has never managed to shake off, perhaps also due to its geographical position in a closed sea like the Mediterranean. Italian society is traversed by instinctive drives that are not at all rational that only a political class worthy of this world could absorb and mediate as happened in certain periods of our history".
In a recent interview with the Catholic magazine "Il Regno" the philosopher Biagio De Giovanni argued that the unity of the West between the USA and Europe is the only possible response to the decline and suicide of the West itself: the USA and Europe have reached crossroads between crisis and catharsis?
“Europe is certainly at a crossroads between its decline and its revival but I don't think that the West as a whole can be considered in crisis, because it is still anchored to democracy, which will not be perfect and which is often slow, but it still remains the best possible regime, as long as it is not reduced to simple procedures but nourished by great ideal values, such as justice, equality and freedom. From this point of view, Putin, even if unintentionally, is rendering a historical service above all to Europe, pushing it to catharsis and to be itself, that is, a Europe not inspired by the Gaullist conception of the Europe of the Fatherlands but a united Europe by strong ideal values as imagined by Jean Monet and Pierre Mendès France”.
The daily difficulties with anti-Putin sanctions and the impossibility of getting out of the immobilism of the EU due to the constraint of the 27 voting unanimously, rather than by majority, however tell of a Europe which, after the leap in quality of the Next Generation EU, struggling to be the protagonist between Russia and America.
“But it is in times of difficulty that we learn to overcome obstacles and, while never forgetting that war is a tragedy made up of death and blood, I keep a glimmer of hope about the future of Europe and I trust that war can push it to catharsis and to rediscover its true roots. There are two tests of truth awaiting it: a common foreign policy and a single European army. I don't want to cradle any illusions but this is not the time to despair ”.
