Meloni: his real "test bed will be the relationship with the country", not with Salvini and Berlusconi. Marco Follini speaks

To understand if the Meloni government is good or bad, as the English say, you need to do the pudding test by eating it, advises Marco Follini, a lifelong Christian Democrat, one of Aldo Moro's favorite students, several times a parliamentarian and Deputy Prime Minister in the second government Berlusconi with whom he did not hesitate to clash openly. Follini has no prejudices against the Meloni government and is convinced that today Berlusconi and Salvini, despite being decisive for the life of the new Executive, "will not be able to undermine the role of (the) prime minister and that "Meloni's real test bench will be the relationship with the country". On the other hand, as regards the three different oppositions, Follini's advice is to immediately focus on a proportional electoral law which would be "also a way to be less in disagreement with each other". But, in interviewing Marco Follini, it is impossible to escape the Pavlovian reflection of a comparison with the era of his great master, Aldo Moro, to whom a few months ago he dedicated a beautiful and very original book such as “Via Savoia. Aldo Moro's labyrinth”, published by La nave di Teseo. “Moro – he observes with disenchantment – ​​always invited us to live in our time, without skipping any of his passages, and yet today he would be an extraordinarily outdated figure” because “he was the director of the time, but of a time that shouldn't be too hasty” unlike ours, so superficially hasty. But here is the interview given by Marco Follini to FIRSTonline.

Honorable Follini, what is your political judgment on the Meloni government? What are the aspects that convince you the most and which ones convince you the least or not at all?

“I am a Christian Democrat who has a certain critical spirit. Therefore, I did not vote for Meloni in the elections and I would not have voted for his government in Parliament. He doesn't convince me that identity spirit, a little narrow (sometimes even almost sectarian) of the watchwords that form the plot of his story. The country does not need a government so convinced of its own bias. If anything, it would need a stitching job, an interweaving of political cultures that should all renew themselves by getting rid of the waving of flags full of colors but now devoid of the wind to make them fly. That there is no unexpected (and independent) minister, that there is no opening towards other worlds, all this gives the idea of ​​a fortress. And it will end, in my opinion, by taking a breath away from the government's action.

That said, some important qualities must be recognized in Giorgia Meloni. You can feel the string of authentic political passion vibrating in her. She is a woman, she is an outsider. She has craft. And then she senses that she's doing some work on herself. You can see that she is trying to learn, that she doesn't feel as "ready" as the posters of her electoral campaign state. The respectful relationship towards Draghi seems to me to be part of a journey that does not deserve to be underestimated. So, no prejudices. As the English say, the proof of the pudding is done by eating it”.

It is true that at the moment there do not seem to be any viable alternatives to the Meloni government but it is also true that FdI does not have the majority on its own and that the premier will always be at the mercy of the madness of Berlusconi and Salvini. You know Berlusconi very well, having faced him openly in the past: will you resign yourself to his slow decline and the absence of alternatives to the Meloni government or will he represent a constant loose cannon for the prime minister?

“There is a fundamental difference between past challenges and today's. In my day (an old man's phrase, one might say) the challenge was brought, so to speak, from the centre, in the name of principles and policies that demanded a coalition less inclined to the right. Today, however, Meloni's challenge takes place right from the right. You are not calling for dialogue with the opposition or shared rules or an extra institutional spirit. However, it is a challenge that rests on much more favorable numbers. Twenty years ago we waged "war" on Berlusconi from minority positions, albeit growing. Today Meloni can count on a solid numerical hegemony. In addition to, of course, the time factor which also plays in his favor.

As for Berlusconi, I think it will continue like this. It's not easy for him to resign himself to a supporting role, but it's impossible for him to find a leading role again. At least as a showman. They are the misadventures of careers that are too long and finally a little repetitive. In short, in my opinion, his grip on the majority is destined to decrease. And his story about himself becomes less and less suggestive. But even this is not exactly the opinion of a fan – as is well known”.

Is Berlusconi or Salvini more insidious for the stability of the Meloni government? How, in your opinion, will Meloni settle with the League? Will he let it happen or, sooner or later, will he face Salvini with a bad face?

“I don't think Meloni will have to look too much at the plots of her allies. Who will try to bite the brakes, both of them. But they will not be able to undermine the role of the prime minister. The real test of her will be the relationship with the country. And that is if and how much you will be able to gain new consensus, to convince the undecided, to restore a positive sentiment to that huge part of the electorate that is increasingly deserting the polls. In short, the problem will be less and less the risk of the majority. And increasingly to broaden the perimeter of consensus on government action.

In short, from this point of view, neither Berlusconi nor Salvini can represent such a great threat. If anything, there is a theme that will be able to set in motion new and more insidious dynamics. The theme of federalism and differentiated autonomy of the regions. In a broader way, the theme of the territory. Theme that the leader of the League has greatly neglected, trusting to expand his basin of consensus towards the south. But which now risks becoming topical again, also in the light of the electoral results. From this point of view Meloni runs a risk. Since the League has an important settlement in the north, albeit in decline, and a network of administrators that are anything but distracted. And the M5S vice versa threatens the tranquility of government action in the South, which is no longer a stronghold of the executive (whatever its political color).

The parliamentary debate on trust in the new government has clearly brought out three different oppositions: the dialoguing one of Renzi and Calenda, the evanescent one of the Democratic Party and the populist one of the Five Stars. What is your opinion and how do you think their relationship will evolve?

“There are, at the moment, three oppositions. And two ways of being. There are the Pd, the M5S and the "third" pole, of course. Then there is an "entrist" line, as it would have been said in the past, not too far from the government area and inclined to take advantage of any conflict that arises in those parts. The line expressed by Renzi the other day in the Senate. And a line instead of a stronger contrast, antagonistic, almost a barricade. Conte's line, who was part - albeit reluctantly - of the Draghi majority and now accuses Meloni, who was in the opposition, of having copied his famous agenda. In the middle is the Democratic Party, which is taking its time and postponing the congress for six months. Thus, with the excuse of doing things right, one risks not doing them at all, arriving too late to give answers to the bewilderment of one's own electorate. Rather than a congress to choose line and leader, I fear that the Democratic Party is spiraling into a kind of "parallel action". Which is somewhat reminiscent of Musil's Man Without Qualities and his disconsolate description of the waning phase of the Habsburg empire. But I hope I'm wrong, of course.

As for what to do, I allow myself some advice: bet everything on a proportional law. And try to do it immediately, putting it at the center of your political agenda. All three opposition forces, for opposing reasons, have the advantage of changing the electoral rule. They have said it many times, somewhat in vain. Today they have the opportunity to do it. Or at least, to try. It will be – it would be – a service to the country; and also a way to disagree less with each other.”

Honorable Member, a few months ago you published a very interesting book which is not by chance entitled “Via Savoia. The labyrinth of Aldo Moro" which reveals and analyzes in depth the world of the great statesman murdered by the Red Brigades: during the recent parliamentary debate on trust, he never thought of the abysmal cultural, moral and political distance between the thought and action of Moro and the current reality? After all, what are the reasons that led to the decay of current politics? The fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of ideologies and the world divided into two blocks, the decline of parties, the explosion of the Internet age and the individualism it brings with it?

“Moro always invited to live in one's own time, without skipping any of his passages. And yet, today he would be an extraordinarily outdated figure. I have asked myself many times if, being born years later, he would have felt the same curiosity for politics, if he would have devoted the same passion to it, if he would have made it the heart of his life. Maybe yes, but I wouldn't be so sure. His bond with Italy at the time was painful, critical, doubtful. But that Italy had political characteristics in which Moro recognized himself, albeit looking a little further ahead. And if he imagined that the long post-war transition would end sooner or later, and that with it the anomaly of a blocked democracy would end, the long crossing to which he had dedicated his life had taken place between places, thoughts, habits and traditions that they were evolving gradually, little by little. He was the director of the time. But of a time that he should never be too hasty. Not ours, one might say.

There is a passage in his last speech, the one to the parliamentary groups called to ratify the solution to the government crisis (March 1978), in which Moro describes several decades of Italian history in one sentence. Where he mentions the "too strong passions" and the "too weak structures" between which the parties fluctuated that season. From then on we all deluded ourselves, to a certain extent, that by removing the parties, putting them in a corner, making them irrelevant, transforming them into the running boards (many running boards, not just one) of their leaders, we would finally find the state again, the rules, the sense of the law, the primacy of the general interest and so on. It didn't happen that way. Far from it. The parties at the time were sick. But they were somewhat an approximation of our institutions. Or rather, what was left of it. With the transition to the "second" republic we removed that encumbrance. And we fell on deaf ears, though. We have dispensed with some of our one-time civilian flaws. But I fear with almost nothing in return.