Linda Lanzillotta, former Minister of Regional Affairs in the second Prodi government and former Vice-President of the Senate, MP several times and now Vice-President of the Italy-France Institute for Economic Relations (IREFI), personally knows French President Emmanuel Macron, who met on several occasions, he loves France and when he can he flies to Paris but above all he loves Italy. You are the right person for an impartial assessment of the origins of the current crisis between Italy and France and its possible developments. Meloni had started well with Macron but then - explains Lanzillotta in this interview with FIRSTonline - "she fell victim to the approximation of Palazzo Chigi which attributed to France a position - that of the opening of the port of Toulon - obtained from an agency Ansa and unverified" and preferred to seek "a muscular victory over France rather than silently enhancing a shared solution to the landing emergency and the possibility of building together, France and Italy, a solution at European level". But let's hear Lanzillotta's entire interview.
In the handover to Giorgia Meloni, the former Prime Minister Mario Draghi had openly advised the new Premier not to isolate herself in Europe, on pain of irrelevance. Unfortunately, his suggestions were not listened to and on migrants the new government faced an unprecedented crisis with Macron's France but also the clear distancing of Germany and Spain. Why do you think it happened? Amateurism and inexperience of the new Premier, sovereign choice of identity or political toll paid to the movementism of partner Matteo Salvini?
“With Draghi, Italy and France had assumed a sort of European leadership that had dragged Germany led by an uncertain Scholz: first of all on support for Ukraine, on the fundamental energy issue and, certainly not far away, on the reform of the Stability Pact . A relationship between the two countries that has aimed at fully exploiting the opportunities indicated by the Quirinale Treaty. Meloni, with the informal meeting in Rome, had made it clear that she wanted to continue on the same path. After that it fell victim to the approximation of Palazzo Chigi which attributed to France a position - that of the opening of the Port of Toulon - obtained from an ANSA agency and not verified through formal contacts between the two Governments, of its own propaganda and that even more aggressive than Salvini, who while the Premier weaves the web by day undoes it by night".
What, in your opinion, was the most serious mistake made by Meloni in relations with Paris?
“That of not having evaluated the internal weakness of Macron, who has no parliamentary majority and instead has a very fierce opposition from Marine Le Pen, and of having therefore made the desire to affirm a sort of muscular victory against France prevail rather than to silently enhance a shared solution to the landing emergency and the possibility of building together, France and Italy, a solution at European level. Always starting from the consideration of the facts and numbers which demonstrate that Italy has far fewer immigrants than France and Germany, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the population”.
But wasn't France's response to the Premier's initial provocation on the Ocean Viking a bit over the top? Did Macron also make some mistakes, perhaps due to internal pressure from both the far left and Le Pen's right?
“Macron's initial attitude of collaboration cannot be expected to persist in the face of the revanchist reactions of the Italian government such as "the music has changed, we showed it to the French!!". These words spoken by representatives of the Italian government conveyed the message that the solution had not been the fruit of constructive cooperation with France but, on the contrary, the result of a tug of war from which Italy had emerged victorious. Unacceptable for Macron and for French public opinion in which there is a strong sovereign and anti-immigration component led by Le Pen. But, obviously, everyone is a sovereignist at home and therefore between Le Pen and Meloni, at least on the issue of migrants, there can be no collaboration ”.
The wise mediation of President Mattarella will be enough to calm the waters between Italy and France or else we run the risk that, precisely on the eve of the first anniversary of the Quirinale Treaty, Paris will implement an escalation of retaliation against Italy not only on the politics of immigration but also on the PNRR or on the reform of the Stability Pact?
“Let's hope that Mattarella doesn't have to put too many patches. Also because, as our President was keen to underline, in Italy, unlike in France, politics is made by the Government and not by the President of the Republic. I personally believe that, in the end, this incident will be overcome because France also has an interest in collaborating with Italy in the next important decisions awaiting the EU and because I do not believe that Italy can have Greece, Malta as allies in Europe and Cyprus against all the great founding countries. And Meloni knows it ”.
What should happen to close the Italy-France crisis and renew the dialogue between the two countries and who has to make the first de-escalation gesture?
“I guess diplomats are at work to create an occasion where neither of us lose face…. It was still too early in Bali, but the statements attributed yesterday to President Macron's entourage, according to which the Italian government's move on migrants is "a bad gesture, but the important thing is to continue cooperation and not stop there" is an encouraging sign ”
You know Macron very well: in your opinion, was the French President more surprised by Giorgia Meloni's sudden moves or did they find confirmation of the lack of reliability that the French attribute to Italy of the new centre-right government?
“Perhaps Macron, after the meeting in Rome, had thought he could change his mind: he had met a leader who had appeared prepared to him, who spoke good French and seemed to sincerely want to continue on the line traced by Mario Draghi. Then Meloni, whose pro-European reconversion is quite recent as well as a diplomatic method for the approach to dealing with problems, ran out of friction and went back to being the Meloni of the past. I think that, at this point, Macron will undoubtedly tread lightly next time."
